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Aims: To derive observational properties and physical parameters of theprogenitor stars of type IIP supernovae SN 2005ay and SN 2005cs from theirU,B,V,R,I CCD photometry, and to define their velocity behaviour. Methods:Light curves are analysed, and the velocities and spectral characteristics ofSN 2005cs are obtained using synthetic spectra modeling. Results: Bothsupernovae are found to be fainter than the average  SN IIP, with SN 2005cs being more subluminous and showing slight brighteningin the second half of plateau stage in the  V,R,I bands and a low expansion velocity.  The effects of two different plausible distance moduli on the derivedphysical parameters of SN 2005ay are considered.  Two approaches are used to recover the amounts of the ejected 56Ni,indicating masses of the order of  0.02 Msun, although late luminosities might indicate a higher amount for SN2005ay, especially for the large distance case.  Constraints on the progenitor properties are also presented, based onempirical analytical models. Two approaches are used to estimate the expansionvelocities at the middle of the plateau phase. SN 2005cs represents an exampleof where all 3 physical parameters, velocity, energy and 56Ni mass are lowerthan average, a correlation not always observed in SNe IIP. SN 2005ay maybelong to the same class if the shorter distance possibility is adopted.Furthermore, the estimated mass range for SN 2005cs is in agreement with limitsestablished by using pre-supernova imaging.Comment: 8 pages, 6 figures, to be published in A&A vol.460, issue 3, December  200

Observations and analysis of two type IIP supernovae: the intrinsically faint object SN 2005cs and the ambiguous object SN 2005ay